参议员林赛·格雷厄姆(Lindsey Graham)是唐纳德·特朗普(Donald Trump)在国会山最热情的捍卫者之一，他周日表示，在这位前总统史无前例的联邦起诉关于他如何处理政府机密，大多数保守派认为此案有政治动机特朗普将在连任竞选中变得“更强大”。
格雷厄姆在与美国广播公司(ABC)“本周”(This Week)主播乔治·斯特凡诺普洛斯(George Stephanopoulos)的反复交锋中有时很暴躁，他被反复追问对特朗普的指控——检察官在起诉书中称，包括特朗普在承认仍属机密的情况下与他人讨论敏感记录的情况。
“唐纳德·特朗普——你可能对他恨之入骨，但他不是间谍，”R . s . c .格雷厄姆说。
特朗普否认有不当行为。他将于周二被指控37项罪名，包括故意保留国防信息和阴谋妨碍司法公正。
格雷厄姆在“本周”采访中开始了他激烈的采访，称针对特朗普的案件有相似之处希拉里·克林顿的-通过对每项调查的审查指出了它们之间的显著差异-他坚持认为特朗普通过《间谍法》被“多收了钱”，指的是故意保留的罪名。
“他做错事情了吗?是的，他可能有。他将为此受审。但希拉里·克林顿不是，“格雷厄姆，谁支持特朗普当选总统2024年，前国务卿、民主党总统候选人赛义德。
斯特凡诺普洛斯跟进，指出特朗普在起诉书中提到的涉嫌讨论政府机密信息的录音。
“你说他没有传播任何信息。事实上，在起诉书中有一盘录音带，他在里面谈到了秘密信息，说他知道这是秘密，知道这不是解密，”斯特凡诺普洛斯告诉格雷厄姆。
“我不知道发生了什么;我没有听到音频，”格雷厄姆说。“但是看看谁根据《反间谍法》受到指控:朱利安·阿桑奇、爱德华·斯诺登、切尔西·曼宁——这些人向新闻机构提供机密信息...或者提供给外国势力。这里没有发生这种情况。”
格雷厄姆接着又提到了克林顿。
“参议员，首先，她被全面调查，”斯特凡诺普洛斯说，促使格雷厄姆“是正确的”和“让我休息一下”。
“有一段唐纳德·特朗普的录音，他说他知道这是秘密信息，他知道他在与其他人分享。这怎么行?”斯特凡诺普洛斯跟进。
“我不是说这没关系，”格雷厄姆说，然后再次将特朗普的行为与克林顿的行为进行比较。
但对这两项调查的政府文件进行的审查表明，特朗普和克林顿的案件存在重大差异，他们使用了一个个人电子邮件服务器，后来发现该服务器被用于发送或接收机密信息，这一丑闻给她的整个2016年总统竞选蒙上了阴影，并经常促使特朗普吹嘘他会更加认真地对待政府机密。
当局表示，大约有193封包含机密信息的电子邮件发送到或来自克林顿的个人电子邮件，而联邦调查人员已经确定，特朗普离开白宫后，他在佛罗里达州的Mar-a-Lago庄园保存了超过322份包含机密信息的个人文件。
检察官认定，克林顿案件的证据和事实表明，“缺乏在非机密系统上交流机密信息的意图”，特别是因为“克林顿收到的电子邮件中有一封被正确标记，以告知她信息的机密状态，”调查人员发现，根据司法部监察长2018年的一份报告，克林顿和她的助手“精心措辞电子邮件，试图‘绕开’机密信息”。
然而，对特朗普的起诉书不仅强调了他在不再担任总统后拥有机密信息的所谓知识，还强调了他如何被指控在联邦当局要求检索记录后向其隐瞒记录。
根据司法部的一份报告，时任联邦调查局局长詹姆斯·科米在2016年抨击希拉里“极其粗心”，但检察官认定，证据和事实显示“缺乏在非机密系统上交流机密信息的意图”。
在“本周”节目中，格雷厄姆还试图将川普保留机密文件的行为与前副总统迈克·彭斯和总统乔·拜登的行为进行比较。他们都在不在办公室的时候保留了敏感记录(就拜登而言，是在他特拉华州家中的车库里)。但他们与政府当局合作归还了这些物品，这与检察官所说的特朗普的抵制形成了鲜明对比。
据ABC新闻此前报道，司法部已经告诉彭斯，他们不会对他提出指控。对拜登处理机密记录的调查正在进行中。
“我不喜欢特朗普总统在某些方面的做法。我不喜欢乔·拜登有关于车库的机密信息。我不喜欢迈克·彭斯不小心拿走机密信息。格雷厄姆说，他还指出前总统比尔·克林顿“在袜子抽屉里放着磁带”(在后一种情况下，比尔·克林顿将一些磁带指定为私人的，而不是总统的，允许他在任期结束后保留它们。)
“我想检讨这个制度。但我想说的是:唐纳德·特朗普(Donald Trump)在曼哈顿发生的事情，在纽约历史上从未发生在任何人身上，”格雷厄姆说，他指的是特朗普在纽约市首次被起诉，涉及他向一名成人电影女演员支付封口费。在那起案件中，他不服罪。
“我认为间谍指控是完全错误的，我认为他们描绘了一个不存在的印象。这不是间谍活动，”格雷厄姆说。“乔治，我确实相信，在唐纳德·特朗普的问题上，我这边的大多数人都认为没有规则。你可以像一个民主党人一样做完全一样的事情或类似的事情，不会有任何事情发生。”
斯特凡诺普洛斯插话说，专家们认为，如果特朗普遵守了政府检索他所带走的机密信息的努力，“就不会有任何案件。”
“嗯，我不知道那是不是真的。他相信自己有能力做到这一点，”格雷厄姆回应道。
他再次提到了其他案例——希拉里，拜登的儿子亨特·拜登——他说这些案例显示了不平等的司法标准。(亨特·拜登本人目前正在接受联邦调查，并坚称自己将被证明清白。)
“我认为唐纳德·特朗普今天在政治上比以前更强大。...我们将举行选举，我们将进行审判，但我向你们保证:大多数美国人相信，大多数共和党人相信，该法律被用作反对唐纳德·特朗普的武器，”格雷厄姆说。
斯特凡诺普洛斯告诉他:“我没有听到你为唐纳德·特朗普的行为辩护，以及为什么你认为这是你希望在美国总统身上看到的那种行为。”
“我不是在为他的行为辩护。如果由我来决定，没有人会在他们的车库或Mar-a-Lago拿走机密信息，”格雷厄姆说。
不过，他说，他对特朗普的看法没有动摇。
“我认为这里正在发生的事情是试图剥夺他的合法性，”格雷厄姆说。
“这不会改变我对唐纳德·特朗普的支持，”他说。“在被证明有罪之前，他是无辜的。但我想传达给你的是，很抱歉我没有做得更好，大多数共和党人认为法律现在是一个政治工具。”
In testy interview, Lindsey Graham argues Trump is 'stronger' after 2nd indictment
Sen. Lindsey Graham, one of Donald Trump's most ardent defenders on Capitol Hill, argued Sunday that in the wake of the former president's unprecedented federal indictment over how he handled government secrets, most conservatives see the case as politically motivated and Trump will emerge "stronger" in his reelection campaign.
Graham, at times testy in his back-and-forth with ABC "This Week" anchor George Stephanopoulos, was repeatedly pressed about the allegations against Trump -- including, prosecutors claim in the indictment, Trump at one point being recorded discussing a sensitive record with others while acknowledging it was still classified.
"Donald Trump -- you may hate his guts, but he is not a spy," Graham, R-S.C., said.
Trump has denied wrongdoing. He will be arraigned on Tuesday on 37 charges, including willful retention of national defense information and conspiracy to obstruct justice.
Graham began his fiery "This Week" interview by saying the case against Trump had parallels with that of Hillary Clinton -- though a review of each investigation points to notable differences between them -- and he maintained that Trump had been "overcharged" via the Espionage Act, referring to the counts of willful retention.
"Did he do things wrong? Yes, he may have. He will be tried about that. But Hillary Clinton wasn't," Graham, who has endorsed Trump for president in 2024, said of the former secretary of state and Democratic presidential candidate.
Stephanopoulos followed up, pointing to the alleged recording of Trump discussing classified government information that prosecutors cited in his indictment.
"You said that he did not disseminate any of this information. In fact, there's an audiotape in the indictment where he's talking about the secret information, saying he knows it's secret, knows it's not declassified," Stephanopoulos told Graham.
"I don't know what happened; I haven't heard the audio," Graham said. "But look at who's been charged under the Espionage Act: Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, Chelsea Manning -- people who turned over classified information to news organizations ... or provide it to a foreign power. That did not happen here."
Graham then again brought up Clinton.
"Senator, first of all, she was fully investigated," Stephanopoulos said, prompting a "yeah right" and "give me a break" from Graham.
"There is an audio tape of Donald Trump saying he knows this is secret information he knows he's sharing with other people. How is that OK?" Stephanopoulos followed up.
"I'm not saying it's OK," Graham said before again comparing Trump's behavior to Clinton's.
But a review of government documents from both investigations suggests there are key differences in the cases of Trump and Clinton, who used a personal email server that was later found to have been used to send or receive classified information, a scandal that cast a shadow over her entire 2016 presidential bid -- and often prompted Trump to tout how much more seriously he would treat government secrets.
Around 193 emails containing classified information were sent to or from Clinton's personal email, authorities have said, while federal investigators have identified more than 322 individual documents containing classified information that were kept at Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida after he left the White House.
Prosecutors determined that the evidence and facts of Clinton's case showed "a lack of intent to communicate classified information on unclassified systems," especially since "[n]one of the emails Clinton received were properly marked to inform her of the classified status of the information," and investigators found evidence that Clinton and her aides "worded emails carefully in an attempt to 'talk around' classified information," according to a 2018 report from the Justice Department's inspector general.
However, the indictment against Trump underscored not only his alleged knowledge that he possessed classified information once he was no longer president but also how he is accused of working to conceal the records from federal authorities after they asked to retrieve them.
Then-FBI Director James Comey blasted Clinton as "extremely careless" in 2016 but prosecutors determined that the evidence and facts showed "a lack of intent to communicate classified information on unclassified systems," according to a Justice Department report.
On "This Week," Graham also sought to compare Trump keeping classified documents to what former Vice President Mike Pence and President Joe Biden did. They both kept sensitive records while out of office (in Biden's case, in his Delaware home's garage). But they cooperated with government authorities in returning them, in contrast to what prosecutors said was Trump's resistance.
The Department of Justice has told Pence they won't bring charges against him, ABC News previously reported. The investigation of Biden's handling of classified records is ongoing.
"I don't like what President Trump did in certain aspects. I don't like that Joe Biden had classified information on the garage. I don't like that Mike Pence carelessly took classified information. I don't like any of that," said Graham, who also pointed to former President Bill Clinton keeping "tapes in his sock drawer." (In the latter case, Bill Clinton designated some tapes as personal, rather than presidential, allowing him to keep them after his time in office.)
"I would like to review the system. But here’s the point I’m trying to make: What's happening in Manhattan with Donald Trump has never happened to anybody in the history of New York," Graham said, referring to Trump's first indictment, in New York City, related to hush money he paid to an adult film actress. He has pleaded not guilty in that case.
"I think the espionage charges are completely wrong and I think they paint an impression that doesn’t exist. This is not espionage," Graham said. "And I do believe, George, that most people on my side of the aisle believes when it comes to Donald Trump, there are no rules. And you can do the exact same thing or something similar as a Democrat and nothing happens to you."
Stephanopoulos interjected and said that experts believe if Trump had complied with the government efforts to retrieve the classified information he took, "There would be no case at all."
"Well, I don't know if that's true. He believes he has the power to do that," Graham responded.
He again pointed to other cases -- Clinton, Biden's son Hunter Biden -- that he said showed an unequal standard of justice. (Hunter Biden is currently under federal investigation himself and has maintained he will be cleared.)
"I think Donald Trump is stronger today politically than he was before. ... We'll have an election, and we'll have a trial, but I promise you this: Most Americans believe, most Republicans believe, that the law is used as a weapon against Donald Trump," Graham said.
Stephanopoulos told him: "What I've not heard from you is the defense of Donald Trump's behavior and why you think that's the kind of behavior you want to see in a president of the United States."
"I'm not justifying his behavior. If it were up to me, nobody would take classified information in their garage or Mar-a-Lago," Graham said.
Still, he said, his view of Trump hadn't wavered.
"I think what's happening here is trying to delegitimize him," Graham said.
"It's not going to change my support for Donald Trump," he said. "He's innocent until proven guilty. But what I'm trying to convey to you, and I'm sorry I'm not doing a better job, that most Republicans believe that the law now is a political tool."
