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历史性的听证会开始,讨论第14修正案是否剥夺特朗普竞选总统的资格

2023-10-31 09:45 -ABC  -  139021

听证会于本周开始第14修正案是否会剥夺唐纳德·特朗普的资格因为他在1月6日美国国会大厦袭击事件前后的行动,他将在2024年竞选总统。

周一早上,在丹佛,一场历史性的为期五天的听证会正在进行,由监督组织代表的六名共和党和无党派科罗拉多选民对特朗普提起诉讼华盛顿公民责任和道德协会(船员)。

类似的听证会定于周四在明尼苏达州圣保罗举行。

船员主席诺亚·布克宾德说,他的组织在科罗拉多州提起诉讼,因为“无论是现在还是将来,都有必要捍卫我们的共和国。”该组织指控特朗普两年前在国会大厦煽动和帮助暴徒,对此他予以否认。他因类似的指控被弹劾,但被参议院的共和党人无罪释放。

特朗普和他的竞选团队驳回了针对他的第14修正案条款。“那些追求这种荒谬的阴谋论和对特朗普总统的政治攻击的人正在将法律延伸得面目全非,”一名发言人此前在一份声明中说。

在丹佛听证会的证人中,剧组传唤了当天在国会大厦的两名警察和在里面的加州众议员埃里克·斯瓦尔韦尔。该组织还计划给两位教授打电话。

“2021年1月6日发生在美国国会大厦的事件令人毛骨悚然。其中一名警官丹尼·霍奇斯作证说:“这是对美利坚合众国的恐怖袭击,是对民主的攻击,是企图阻止权力的和平转移。”。

Swalwell在证词中描述了他对特朗普不会接受2020年总统选举结果的担忧,以及他在骚乱中看到的一些情况。他称之为“类似战争”。

在特朗普律师的交叉询问下,斯瓦韦尔被展示了他过去在社交媒体上敦促选民为民主事业“战斗”的一些帖子——他们展示了特朗普在1月6日晚些时候的评论,当时他确实要求结束暴力。

CREW的律师在一份公开声明中声称,“特朗普煽动一群暴力暴徒攻击我们的牛,以阻止根据我们的宪法和平移交权力。...我们在这里是因为特朗普毕竟声称他有权再次担任总统。”

特朗普的律师斯科特·盖斯勒(Scott Gessler)是科罗拉多州前国务卿,他在自己的开场白中说,这起诉讼是“反民主的”。

“看来要灭掉这个机会了...对数百万科罗拉多人、科罗拉多共和党人和无党派选民来说,能够选择和投票给他们想要的总统候选人。

他说,特朗普的团队将传唤两名教授作为证人,重点关注第14修正案第3节的含义。他们还计划在1月6日早上给白宫外的集会组织者打电话,特朗普在那里发表了演讲,盖斯勒表示他们将打电话给另一名众议院议员。

他驳斥了特朗普参与叛乱的说法。

盖斯勒说,针对特朗普的大部分案件都是基于众议院特别委员会的工作,该委员会于1月6日进行了调查,并进行了一系列冗长的委员会听证会,还提交了一份报告,概述了特朗普在骚乱发生前的行为。

PHOTO: Former President Donald Trump speaks during a break in his civil business fraud trial Oct. 25, 2023, in New York City.

Former President Donald Trump speaks during a break in his civil business fraud trial Oct. 25, 2023, in New York City.

塞思·维尼格/美联社

在过去的几个月里,根据第14修正案第3节禁止特朗普参加共和党初选的努力该法案最初是在南北战争后颁布的,已经在几个州获得了支持。

这一想法也得到了一些保守派法律学者的支持,尽管一些知名的共和党选举官员,如批评特朗普选举言论的佐治亚州国务卿布拉德·拉芬斯佩格,一直对此持怀疑态度。

多个州级诉讼已经提交,但科罗拉多州和明尼苏达州被认为是最引人注目的,并促成了关于该问题的第一次重大听证会。

修正案第3条规定,如果某人在任时宣誓支持宪法,但随后“参与反对宪法的叛乱或反叛,或[给予]敌人援助或安慰”,除非他们获得国会三分之二投票的赦免,否则没有资格担任未来的职务。

这一理论的支持者认为,这一理论适用于特朗普,因为他在2020年大选失败后的行为,但试图扭转结果,包括在2021年1月6日早上。此前针对其他共和党人的此类努力都失败了,除了在新墨西哥州,1月6日,一名因非法侵入而被定罪的当地专员被解雇。

特朗普坚称自己没有做错任何事。

在一个ABC新闻/华盛顿邮报民意调查在9月下旬进行的调查中,约44%的成年人表示,根据第14修正案,特朗普应该被禁止担任总统。略多一点的50%的人表示,修正案不应禁止特朗普任职。

科罗拉多州的听证会是第一次针对总统候选人测试第14修正案的禁令。

国务卿耶娜·格里斯沃尔德(Jena Griswold)在接受美国广播公司新闻(ABC News)采访时表示,“我期待法院提供指导,当然是对我在科罗拉多州的指导,而是对全国各地的选举官员的指导,看特朗普是否因参与叛乱而取消了自己的资格。”

民主党人Griswold将在1月5日验证科罗拉多州的总统初选投票,并因其办公室而被列为第14修正案诉讼的被告。

她没有就特朗普的资格表态,尽管她对特朗普的性格持批评态度。

他的律师以各种理由对诉讼提出了质疑,包括认为诉讼在3月份该州共和党初选之前展开得太早,并援引反SLAPP法律,这些法律基于这样一种理念,即人们不应该因为行使第一修正案权利而被起诉,正如特朗普声称他在攻击2020年选举结果时所做的那样。

民主党州长Jared Polis任命的科罗拉多州地区法官Sarah Wallace拒绝了驳回动议。

特朗普的团队也未能成功地将案件从州法院转移到联邦法院。

本周听证会的主题包括第14修正案第3节的历史和应用,该节是否自动执行,是否适用于总统,该节中使用的“参与”和“叛乱”的含义,以及国务卿以宪法缺陷为由排除候选人的频率和依据,等等。

然后,在11月15日,各方将回到法庭进行结案陈词。华莱士表示,她将在48小时内发布裁决。

据特朗普的律师称,证人名单尚未公布,但特朗普不会作证。华莱士拒绝了早些时候要求罢免特朗普以便他的证词可以在听证会上提交的动议。

然而,听证会一开始,他就在筹集资金。

Griswold没有在本案中出示证据,但她表示,如果被传唤为证人,她将遵守规定,并将回答任何有关科罗拉多州选举法的法律问题,他们的认证过程或任何其他询问。

“我们从来没有一位总统像唐纳德·特朗普那样煽动叛乱并攻击我们的民主。我们从来没有一位总统这样做过,然后决定再次竞选公职。因此,在所有这些事情中,我的工作就是遵守法律,维护宪法,”格里斯沃尔德说。

明尼苏达州最高法院周四将听取由自由言论人民(FSFP)组织提出的类似挑战,该组织是一个代表几个州选民的非营利组织,包括一名前州务卿和一名前明尼苏达州最高法院法官。

这场听证会预计将比丹佛的多日听证会规模小,将决定特朗普是否能出现在明尼苏达州的初选投票中。

FSFP的法律主任罗恩·费恩(Ron Fein)在接受美国广播公司新闻(ABC News)采访时表示,他的组织认为第14修正案第3条适用于前总统,声称川普违背了他对宪法的誓言。

FSFP对几名成员的候选人资格提出质疑,但没有成功国会在2022年引用第3节。在一起针对佐治亚州共和党众议员马乔里·泰勒·格林的著名案件中,法官发现原告提供的证据不足。

尽管如此,费恩辩称,他们对特朗普的挑战依赖于“更有力”的证据。

明尼苏达州国务卿史蒂夫·西蒙是一名民主党人,由于他的角色,他也在诉讼中被提及。

西蒙告诉美国广播公司新闻,他的办公室不对挑战的法律依据采取任何立场,但他们将对案件的时间安排和时间表采取立场,以确保选民在该州3月5日初选之前得到及时的答复。

在针对特朗普资格的各种州级诉讼中,西蒙预测,如果任何法律管辖区同意第3条的论点,美国最高法院将不得不介入,做出最终决定。

“唐纳德·特朗普要么到处都在选票上,要么什么都不在,”西蒙说。"这个国家将有一个统一的规则。"

Historic hearings begin on whether 14th Amendment disqualifies Trump from running for president

Hearings began this week onwhether the 14th Amendment disqualifies Donald Trumpfrom running for president in 2024 because of his actions around the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol.

On Monday morning in Denver, a historic five-day evidentiary hearing got underway for a lawsuit filed against Trump by six Republican and unaffiliated Colorado voters represented by the watchdog groupCitizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington(CREW).

A similar hearing is set for Thursday in St. Paul, Minnesota.

CREW President Noah Bookbinder has said that his organization brought its suit in Colorado because "it is necessary to defend our republic both today and in the future." The group's complaint accuses Trump of inciting and aiding the mob at the Capitol two years ago, which he denies. He was impeached on similar charges but acquitted by Republicans in the Senate.

Trump and his campaign have dismissed the 14th Amendment clause being used against him. "The people who are pursuing this absurd conspiracy theory and political attack on President Trump are stretching the law beyond recognition," a spokesperson previously said in a statement.

Among their witnesses in the Denver hearing, CREW called two police officers who were at the Capitol that day and California Rep. Eric Swalwell, who was inside. The group also plans to call two professors.

"The events on Jan. 6, 2021, in the United States Capitol were horrific. It was a terrorist attack on the United States of America, an assault on democracy and an attempt to prevent the peaceful transfer of power," one of the officers, Danny Hodges, testified.

Swalwell, in his testimony, described his concerns that Trump wouldn't accept the 2020 presidential election results and some of what he saw during the rioting. "War-like," he called it.

Under cross-examination by Trump's attorneys, Swalwell was shown some of his past social media posts urging voters to "fight" for Democratic causes -- and they showed Trump's comments from later on Jan. 6 where he did ask for the violence to end.

An attorney for CREW claimed in an opening statement that "Trump incited a violent mob to attack our cattle to stop the peaceful transfer of power under our Constitution. ... And we are here because Trump claims after all that he has the right to be president again."

Trump's attorney Scott Gessler, a former secretary of state for Colorado, said in his own opening remarks that the suit is "anti-democratic."

"It looks to extinguish the opportunity ... for millions of Coloradans, Colorado Republicans and unaffiliated voters, to be able to choose and vote for the presidential candidate they want," Gessler said.

He said Trump's team will call two professors as witnesses to focus on the meaning of Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. They also plan to call organizers of the rally outside the White House on the morning of Jan. 6, where Trump gave a speech, and Gessler indicated they will call another House lawmaker.

He rejected the contention that Trump engaged in the insurrection.

Gessler said much of the case against Trump was based on the work done by the House special committee that investigated Jan. 6 and produced a series of lengthy committee hearings and a report outlining Trump's behavior in the lead-up to the riot.

Over the past few months,efforts to bar Trump from the Republican primary ballot under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, which was first enacted after the Civil War, have gained traction in a few states.

The idea has also been endorsed by some conservative legal scholars, though some notable Republican elections officials, like Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, who has criticized Trump's election rhetoric, have been skeptical of it.

Multiple state-level suits have been filed, but Colorado and Minnesota are seen as the most notable and have prompted the first major hearings on the issue.

Section 3 of the amendment states that someone isn't eligible for future office if, while they were in office, they took an oath to support the Constitution but then "engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or [gave] aid or comfort to the enemies thereof," unless they are granted amnesty by a two-thirds vote of Congress.

Supporters of this theory argue it applies to Trump because of his conduct after he lost the 2020 election but sought to reverse the results, including on the morning of Jan. 6, 2021. Previous such efforts focused on other Republicans have failed, except in New Mexico, where a local commissioner convicted of trespassing on Jan. 6 was booted from his office.

Trump maintains he did nothing wrong.

In anABC News/Washington Post pollconducted late September, some 44% of adults said Trump should be prohibited from serving as president under the 14th Amendment. Slightly more, 50%, said the amendment should not bar Trump from office.

The hearing in Colorado is the first time the 14th Amendment's prohibition has been tested against a presidential candidate.

"I look forward to the court providing guidance, of course, to me in Colorado but to election officials across the nation as to whether Trump has disqualified himself for engaging in insurrection," Secretary of State Jena Griswold said in an interview with ABC News.

Griswold, a Democrat, will certify Colorado's presidential primary ballot on Jan. 5 and is named as a defendant in the 14th Amendment lawsuit because of her office.

She has not declared a position on Trump's qualification standing, though she is critical of Trump's character.

His attorneys have challenged the suit on various grounds, including arguing that the litigation is unfolding too soon before the state's Republican primary in March and invoking anti-SLAPP laws, which are based on the notion that people should not be targeted with lawsuits for exercising their First Amendment rights as Trump claims he did in attacking the 2020 election results.

Colorado District Judge Sarah Wallace, an appointee of Democratic Gov. Jared Polis, has rejected motions to dismiss.

Trump's team also unsuccessfully sought for the case to be moved from state to federal court.

Topics for this week's hearing include the history and application of Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, if the section is self-executing, if it applies to presidents, the meaning of "engaged" and "insurrection" as used in the section and how often and on what basis does the secretary of state exclude candidates based on constitutional deficiencies, among other items.

Then, on Nov. 15, the various parties will come back to court to deliver closing arguments. Wallace has indicated she will issue a ruling within 48 hours of that.

No witness lists have been released but Trump will not testify, according to his lawyers. An earlier motion to depose Trump so that his testimony may be presented at the hearing was denied by Wallace.

He has been fundraising off of the start of the hearing, however.

Griswold is not presenting evidence in the case but has said she will comply if called as a witness and would answer any legal questions about Colorado election law, their certification process or any other inquiries.

"We've never had a president incite an insurrection and attack our democracy like Donald Trump. And then we've never had a president who has done that and then decided to run for office again. So my job through all of this is to follow the law and uphold the Constitution," Griswold said.

The Minnesota Supreme Court on Thursday will hear a similar challenge brought by Free Speech For People (FSFP), a nonprofit representing several state voters, including a former state secretary and a former Minnesota Supreme Court justice.

That hearing, which is expected to be of a smaller scope than the multiday hearing in Denver, will decide whether or not Trump can appear on the Minnesota primary ballot.

Ron Fein, the legal director of FSFP, told ABC News in an interview that his group believes Section 3 of the 14th Amendment applies to the former president, claiming Trump broke his oath to the Constitution.

FSFP had unsuccessfully challenged the candidacies of several members ofCongress in 2022, citing Section 3. In one notable case against Georgia Republican Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, the judge found the plaintiffs provided insufficient evidence.

Still, Fein argued that their challenge against Trump relies on "far stronger" evidence.

Minnesota Secretary of State Steve Simon, a Democrat, is also named in the lawsuit because of his role.

Simon told ABC News that his office is not taking any position on the legal merits of the challenge but they will be taking a stance on the scheduling and timeline of the case to ensure that voters receive a timely answer ahead of the state's March 5 primary.

Amid the various state-level suits against Trump's eligibility, Simon predicted that if any legal jurisdiction agrees with the Section 3 argument, the U.S. Supreme Court will have to step in to make the ultimate decision.

"Donald Trump will either be on the ballot everywhere or nowhere," Simon said. "There will be a blanket rule for the country."

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