共和党总统候选人Vivek Ramaswamy和加州民主党众议员Ro Khanna周三举行了一场辩论一开始是友好的交流，但很快就变成了关于根本分歧的激烈讨论。
这场长达一小时的活动在曼彻斯特的圣安瑟伦学院新罕布什尔政治学院举行，由《波士顿环球报》记者詹姆斯·平德尔主持，此前两位政治家就对抗问题进行了数月的反复讨论。
拉马斯瓦米已经建立了一个全国性的档案通过竞选2024年总统候选人提名，而2016年首次当选的卡纳被视为一名立法者，他自己的未来可能更大
据组织者称，这场辩论旨在避免关于过程、竞选赛马或假设的问题。相反，拉马斯瓦米和卡纳在10分钟的节目中集中讨论了经济、外交事务、气候变化和美国的未来。
“我想，与其只是试图在网上获得修辞上的分数，为什么不与你不同意的人就美国的未来进行一次文明、实质性的讨论?”Rhanna在《与Ramaswamy破冰》中说道。
他继续说道，笑了一会儿:“我想为你停止在机场的困惑——我希望这将澄清这一点。”(两人都是印度裔。)
外交政策
在俄罗斯入侵和其他外国冲突中，当两国就世界其他地方的战争发生争执，在应该给予乌克兰多少资金和支持的问题上立场对立时，这场辩论变得异常激烈。
“我的观点是，以色列有绝对的权利进行自卫。这就是答案，”当被问及10月7日极端组织对以色列发动恐怖袭击后以色列与哈马斯的战争时，拉马斯瓦米直言不讳地说。
拉马斯瓦米继续说，他指的是美国在中东的军事资产，主要用于反恐:“顺便说一下，我们在叙利亚和伊拉克的基地，我们的儿女们所在的地方，是现成的目标。我们一开始就不应该在那里。”
拉马斯瓦米还重申了他反对美国军事介入外国冲突的立场——他称之为“乔治·华盛顿美国第一保守主义”，修改了竞争对手唐纳德·特朗普自己的平台。
Khanna以他反对伊拉克战争的政治生涯开始的背景开始了外交事务的谈话，他不同意，他说需要“美国的领导作用”,而不是“美国的孤立主义”
“不过有一点....我同意你的观点。我们不应该参与地面战争。我们不应该卷入战争，”他在谈到以色列和哈马斯时说。他接着说，他支持推动以色列和巴勒斯坦的两国解决方案。
在讨论乌克兰时，卡纳说，“美国的利益需要美国的领导。”
Vivek Ramaswamy, center, debates Ro Khanna at Saint Anslem Colleg in Manchester, N.H., Nov. 1, 2023.
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卡纳说，与乌克兰站在一起也是对中国可能对自治的台湾采取任何行动的一种有用的“威慑”。
拉马斯瓦米随后抨击了卡纳，称反对过去冲突的人现在“走向同样的冲突”，这令他失望。他还认为，乌克兰在努力实现民主方面存在问题。
卡纳反复建议他就此事“听取简报”，“因为你在竞选，你有一个大平台。”
经济
在经济方面，拉马斯瓦米主张增加“一切值得生产的东西”的国内供应，包括通过钻井、核电、水力压裂等增加能源生产，但他表示，政府法规和官僚主义是“基本障碍”。
他指责总统乔·拜登。
“我认为，为乔·拜登担水是令人遗憾的，而事实上...拉马斯瓦米说:“每天，美国人都知道他们在本届政府的政策之下遭受痛苦。
卡纳不同意拉马斯瓦米的观点，他强调了政府参与刺激经济增长的重要性。
“维韦克和我完全不同意我所说的‘经济爱国主义’:政府在重建被掏空的工业中的作用，”他说。
卡纳称拉马斯瓦米将联邦官僚机构削减75%的提议是一个“可怕的想法”。这一举措本身可能会面临后勤和法律方面的挑战。
“你需要联邦政府的投资来扩大工厂的规模。你需要它来建造，”卡纳说。
关于能源，他说，“如果某种东西更快、更清洁，就使用它。没有人说不要使用化石燃料。”
他反驳了拉马斯瓦米更广泛的竞选信息:“如果我们没有经济赋权的愿景，我们就不会有爱国主义。...仅仅说‘让我们研究创始人，让我们诉诸修辞’不会给我们一个共同点。”
气候变化
主持人平德尔引用了一项关于气候变化的民意调查，该调查显示三分之一的共和党人认为应该宣布气候变化为国家紧急状态。
拉马斯瓦米笑道:“我不是那三个共和党人之一。”
他认为“气候变化政策”可能比气候变化造成的危害更大，气候变化已经引起了科学家和环保主义者的大量警告。
卡纳表示不相信，说人类的繁荣需要一个星球。他提到了今年早些时候该州的洪水。
“当我们要进行这次谈话时，我会带着所有这些科学事实进来。然后我团队中的一个年轻人说，‘Ro，你不需要说服新罕布什尔州的人们气候变化是真实的，或者它是一个生存威胁，’”他说。
拉马斯瓦米持更加怀疑的观点:“这个议程的很多内容与气候无关。这是在鞭笞我们自己...为我们现代的生活方式道歉。我不反对开发替代品。”
今后
一点共识?国家的未来。
“当我在宾夕法尼亚州的巴克斯县长大时，我的父母不可能见过工作人员或国会议员。今天，美国国会中有五名南亚人。这是一个进步的国家，”卡纳说。
他说，接下来需要的是结束共和党人支持的减税政策，给“工薪中产阶级家庭”一个“美国梦的机会”
拉马斯瓦米坚持他在竞选中经常重复的一句话。
“我认为我们(作为一个国家)现在真的有点年轻，”他说。“事实上——正在经历我们的青春期。我们正在经历困难时期。我不会到这里来告诉你，‘现在是美国的早晨。’不是的。但还可以再来一次。"
他总结说，美国人有很多共同点。
“我们可能在公司税率或其他细节上存在分歧。但我们在通往精英统治、言论自由、追求卓越、自我治理而非贵族统治的道路上达成了基本共识，我认为我们这个国家的大多数人都同意，”他说。“我们仍然分享美国革命的共同理想，但现在我们应该超越庆祝多样性和差异，庆祝那些将我们团结在一起的理想。”
Vivek Ramaswamy and Ro Khanna spar over foreign policy, climate change and more
Republican presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy and California Democratic Rep. Ro Khannamet for a debate on Wednesdayand what started out as a friendly exchange soon turned into a fiery conversation over fundamental differences.
The hourlong event -- held at St. Anselm College's New Hampshire Institute of Politics in Manchester and moderated by Boston Globe reporter James Pindell -- comes after months of back and forth between the two politicians about facing off.
Ramaswamyhas built a national profilethrough his campaign for the 2024 presidential nomination while Khanna, first elected in 2016, is seen as a lawmaker with potentially larger future of his own
According to organizers, the debate was designed to avoid questions about process, the campaign horse race or hypotheticals. Instead, Ramaswamy and Khanna focused on the economy, foreign affairs, climate change and the future of America, in 10-minute segments.
"I thought instead of just trying to score rhetorical points online, why not have a civil, substantive discussion about the future of America with someone you disagree with?" Rhanna said in breaking the ice with Ramaswamy.
He continued, with a moment of laughter: "I want to stop getting confused at airports for you -- I'm hoping this is going to clear that up." (Both men are of Indian descent.)
Foreign policy
The debate became notably heated when the two sparred over wars elsewhere in the world, taking opposite stands on the amount of funding and support that should be given to Ukraine, amid Russia's invasion, and other foreign conflicts.
"My view is that Israel has an absolute right to its own national self-defense. That's the answer," Ramaswamy said bluntly when asked about Israel's war with Hamas in the wake of the extremist group's terror attack on Israel on Oct. 7.
Ramaswamy continued, referring to U.S. military assets in the Middle East largely intended for counterterrorism: "By the way, our bases in Syria and Iraq, where our sons and daughters are sitting, are sitting targets. We shouldn't be there in the first place."
Ramaswamy also reiterated his stance against American military involvement in foreign conflicts -- something he called the "George Washington America First conservatism," modifying rival Donald Trump's own platform.
Khanna, who prefaced the conversation on foreign affairs with his background of starting out his political career opposing the Iraq War, disagreed, saying "American leadership" is needed -- not "American isolationism."
"One point though .... I agree with you. We should not be in a ground war. We should not get involved in the war," he said of Israel and Hamas. He then said he supports a push for a two-state solution with Israel and the Palestinians.
When discussing Ukraine, Khanna said, "American interest requires American leadership."
Standing with Ukraine was also a useful "deterrent" to China potentially taking any action against self-governing Taiwan, Khanna said.
Ramaswamy then took a swipe at Khanna, saying it disappoints him that people who opposed past conflicts were now "marching into the same conflicts." He also contended that Ukraine has issues with trying to live up to its democracy.
Khanna advised him, repeatedly, to "get a briefing" on the matter "because you're running, you have a big platform."
The economy
On the economy, Ramaswamy argued in favor of increasing the domestic supply of "everything that's worth producing" -- including increasing energy production through drilling, nuclear power, fracking and more -- but said government regulations and bureaucracy are the "basic obstacle."
He laid the blame with President Joe Biden.
"It is, I think, regrettable to be carrying the water of Joe Biden when in fact ... everyday Americans know they're suffering at the hands of policies that came from this administration," Ramaswamy said.
Khanna disagreed with Ramaswamy, stressing what he saw as the importance of government involvement in stimulating economic growth.
"Vivek and I completely disagree with what I call 'economic patriotism': the role of the government to rebuild industry which has been hollowed out," he said.
Khanna called Ramaswamy's proposal to cut the federal bureaucracy by 75% a "horrible idea." Such a move would likely face logistic and legal challenges of its own.
"You need the federal government investments to be able to scale factories. You need it to be able to build," Khanna said.
On energy, he said, "If something is faster and cleaner -- use it. No one is saying don't use fossil fuels."
He pushed back on Ramaswamy's broader campaign message: "We're not going to have patriotism if we don't have a vision for economic empowerment. ... Just saying, 'Let's study the founders, let's appeal to rhetoric' isn't gonna give us a common ground."
Climate change
Pindell, the moderator, referenced a poll on climate change that suggested one out of three Republicans think it should be declared a national emergency.
Ramaswamy laughed: "I'm not one of those three Republicans."
He contended that "climate change policies" could cause more harm than the changing climate, which has raised numerous alarms from scientists and environmentalists.
Khanna responded in disbelief, saying human flourishing requires a planet. He referenced flooding in the state earlier this year.
"When we were going to have this conversation, I was going to come in with all these scientific facts. And then one of the young folks on my team said, 'Ro, you don't have to convince people in New Hampshire that climate change is real or that it's an existential threat,'" he said.
Ramaswamy took a much more skeptical view: "A lot of this agenda has nothing to do with the climate. It is about flogging ourselves ... apologizing for our modern way of life. I'm not against developing alternatives."
The future
One point of agreement? The country's future.
"When I was growing up in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, my parents could not have met a staff member or a member of Congress. Today, there are five South Asians in the United States Congress. This is a country of progress," Khanna said.
He said that what is needed next is an end to the tax cuts favored by Republicans to give "working, middle-class families" a "shot at the American dream."
Ramaswamy stuck to a line he often repeats on the campaign trail.
"I think we're really just a little young right now [as a country]," he said. "Actually -- going through our version of adolescence. We're going through hard times. I'm not going to come here and tell you, 'It's morning in America.' It's not. But it can be again."
He concluded that Americans have a lot in common.
"We might disagree on corporate tax rates or whatever those details are. But we agree on the basic rules of the road to meritocracy, free speech, the pursuit of excellence, self-governance over aristocracy, I think most of us in this country do," he said. "We still share the ideals of the American Revolution in common, but now it's up to us to move just beyond celebrating diversity and differences to celebrate those ideals that unite us."
