随着越来越多的问题出现政府文件的发现在乔·拜登总统的办公室和家中，当选官员和政府监察组织表达了对重要文件安全性的担忧。
几个月前，前总统唐纳德·特朗普(Donald Trump)被曝去年夏天在他的Mar-a-Lago牧场有几箱绝密政府文件。
美国广播公司新闻撰稿人、国土安全部负责情报和分析的前代理副部长约翰·科恩周一在“从这里开始”节目中谈到了调查以及政府文件的处理方式。
从这里开始:约翰，我应该指出你是在拜登总统的领导下行事的，去年春天，当拜登的全职人选即将得到确认时，你辞职了……但你非常了解这个领域。像这样的文件怎么会突然出现?
约翰·科恩:我在克林顿政府、布什政府、奥巴马政府工作过，正如你指出的，在拜登政府工作过，我有安全许可。我可以广泛接触机密信息。事实上，在那段时间里，我还负责进行安全调查或保护机密信息的办公室。除非你在中情局或其他情报组织工作，在那里你处理的都是机密信息，当你处理大量文件，将机密报告和非机密文件混在一起时，这些类型的安全违规并不罕见。不经意间，人们会将它们混在一起，带着本不该带的文件走出SCIF或安全设施，这种情况并不少见。当发生这种情况时，有一个非常完善的过程，称为安全调查。
通过安全调查，我们将快速了解:这些文件有多敏感?它们被清楚地标记了吗?它们是如何被错误处理的?意思是，这是一个意外还是不经意的疏忽还是有意的，如果是有意的?调查将试图确定这是否是出于邪恶目的的故意不当操作。我们遇到过有人因为写书而删除机密信息的情况。在其他情况下，人们删除机密信息是因为他们打算把它交给外国对手。后者显然要严重得多。因此，当看到安全违规或机密信息处理不当的情况时，所有这些都是很常见的。
从这里开始:嗯，习惯似乎是一个奇怪的词，虽然。你提到了SCIF，那是一些安全的地方。那么，这些文件应该总是放在那些安全的地方，还是允许政府官员把它们带回家，也许带到一个不安全的房子或车库或其他什么地方，在那里看呢?机密文件的具体协议是什么?
科恩:简单的回答是，视情况而定。机密信息有各种等级。其中一些需要更严格的处理过程。还有其他的机密信息，你可以把它们锁在桌子里。对于拥有机密信息的个人来说，如果他们在家中有合适的存储空间，就能够将机密信息带回家，这并不罕见。如果有适当的许可，有些人甚至在家里安装了SCIFs。因此，我们从迄今为止听到的一些令人窒息的报道中不知道的是，在车库、拜登住所和办公室里发现的这些文件是什么?它们是机密吗?从国家安全的角度来看，真的没那么重要。
与保护和保障该材料有关的协议的大部分安全实施是在荣誉系统上进行的。也就是说，安全官员知道有人带着它——带着绝密或秘密文件——走出办公室的唯一方式是因为做这件事的人报告了这件事。
从这里开始:哦，没有，像，签出系统，'嘿，嘿，总统先生，副总统先生，你在你的办公室有这个。“你带回家的时候，需要在这里签字，”那不存在。
科恩:有一个非常小的分类信息子集，有一个登录和退出的过程。但对于绝大多数机密、秘密和绝密信息，却没有那种类型的追踪系统。
从这里开始:约翰，从你领导这些调查的角度来看，这是个问题吗?这需要修改吗?或者我们对此无所谓?
科恩:我认为这是一个巨大的问题。这就是为什么我们会有这么多问题。但是请这样想:在联邦政府内外，有成千上万的人通过了安全审查。
在过去的五、六、七年里，政府在识别这些政府系统中的可疑行为方面取得了长足的进步。举个例子，如果你在一个情报组织工作，你的工作是分析关于俄罗斯的情报，但是电脑系统标记了你，因为你下载并打印了大量关于恐怖组织的情报，这可能会导致某种类型的审查。但是每个机密文件都被追踪的想法?这不是这个系统的工作方式。
这样想吧:我不知道你的桌子是什么样的，但我的很乱。当我在我的一些办公室工作时，我会有成堆的非机密文件，成堆的机密文件，我有一个工作人员每天查看我的公文包里有什么，以确保我不会意外错过一条机密信息并意外带回家。
从这里开始:我正要说谁碰了这些文件也是一件事，对吗?因为我想拜登总统不会在卸任副总统后搬动他的纸箱。
科恩:不，这将是这次安全审查的一个重要部分，是谁真正包装了这些箱子，你知道，这些信息有封面吗?我听到一些报道说这些是单独的页面。那些页面有标记吗?他们说的是绝密还是机密?在它的上面，它们被部分标记了吗，意思是在每一段的前面有小标记表明它们是机密的吗?
你知道我们知道Mar-a-Lago的文件有封面，对吧?那些色彩鲜艳的封面上印着大大的字母，上面写着绝密、敏感、或分隔情报。但是，我们还没有听说在拜登家中发现的材料上是否有封面。所以，还有很多要学的。违反安全听起来非常非常邪恶，但在许多情况下，它们只是意外。
在许多情况下，他们是有点粗心的人，或者可能没有，没有像他们应该的那样小心。他们不小心弄混了一些文件。它们被装在一个盒子里，然后储存起来。在涉及前总统特朗普的Mar-a-Lago案中，这将是另一件需要关注的事情，也是当这些文件在有权访问这些文件的地方得到保护时。
从这里开始:你刚才谈到了成千上万的文件到处流动。我的意思是，布什，克林顿，卡特，他们现在应该检查他们的房子吗?你认为这和其他前总统和副总统有多大关系?
科恩:我怀疑，由于拜登案和特朗普案产生的能见度，你有大量的前政府官员，无论他们是前总统还是其他人，都在地下室寻找自上届政府以来他们存放在那里的盒子。
从这里开始:你有没有装满机密文件的箱子，我们现在应该知道，约翰?
科恩:嘿，布拉德，我上次离开的时候，不想带任何东西。我唯一拿走的东西是我的一个员工给我的一瓶酒。我把其他东西都留在那里了。
Former Homeland Security official weighs in on Biden classified document probe
As more questions arise from the discoveries of government documents found in President Joe Biden's offices and home, elected officials and government watchdog groups are expressing concerns about the security of important documents.
The latest news comes months after it was revealed that former President Donald Trump had several boxes of top-secret government documents at his Mar-a-Lago ranch last summer.
John Cohen, an ABC News contributor and former acting undersecretary for intelligence and analysis at the Department of Homeland Security, spoke with "Start Here" Monday about the probe and how government documents are handled.
START HERE: John, I should point out you were acting under President Biden, you resigned last spring when Biden’s full-time pick was about to be confirmed…but you know this space very well. How do documents like this just keep popping up?
JOHN COHEN: I worked in the Clinton administration, the Bush administration, the Obama administration, and, as you pointed out, the Biden administration, and I had security clearances. I had broad access to classified information. In fact, during some of that time, I also was in charge of offices that conducted security investigations or worked to safeguard classified information. And unless you are working in an organization like the CIA or another intelligence community organization, where all you're working with is classified information, and these types of security violations are not really that uncommon when you are working with large quantities of documents and you are co-mingling classified reports with unclassified documents. It is not uncommon for there to be situations where, inadvertently, people will mix them together and walk out of a SCIF or secured facility with a document they shouldn't have. And when that happens, there is a very well-established process known as a security investigation.
And with a security investigation, we'll look at real quickly: How sensitive were the documents? Were they clearly marked? How were they mishandled? Meaning, was it an accident or was it inadvertently inadvertent or was it intentional if it was intentional? The investigation will then try to determine was that intentional mishandling for nefarious purposes. We've had situations where people remove classified information because they were writing a book. In other cases, people remove classified information because they intend to give it to a foreign adversary. The latter obviously being much more serious. So all of that is pretty customary when looking at a security violation or an instance where there's been mishandling of classified information.
START HERE: Well, customary seems like the weird word, though. You mentioned a SCIF, which are these like secure locations. So are those documents always supposed to be viewed in those secure locations, or is it allowable for a public official to take those home, maybe to an unsecured house or a garage or whatever and look them over there? What are the protocols with the classified stuff specifically?
COHEN: The short answer is, it depends. There are various grades of classified information. Some of it requiring much more stringent handling processes. And there's other classified information where you can lock it up in a desk. It is not uncommon for individuals with classified information, if they have the right storage in their homes, to be able to take classified information at home. Some people actually have SCIFs built into their homes if they have appropriate permission. So what we don't know from some of the breathless reporting that we've heard thus far is what were these documents that were discovered in the garage, in the Biden residence and in the office? Were they confidential, which really, from a national security perspective, really wouldn't be that significant.
Most of the security enforcement of the protocols that have to do with protecting and safeguarding that material is on the honor system. Meaning typically the only way that the security officer would know that someone walked out of the office with it - with a top secret or a secret document - is because the person who did it reported it.
START HERE: Oh, there's no, like, sign out system of, 'Hey, Hey, Mr. President, Mr. Vice President, you had this in your office. You need to sign this out while you take it home.' That doesn't exist.
COHEN: There is a very small subset of classified information that there is a sign-in and sign-out process. But for the overwhelming majority of confidential, secret, [and] top secret information, there is not that type of tracking system.
START HERE: Is that a problem, John, from your perspective as somebody who's led these investigations? Does that need to be revamped or are we cool with that?
COHEN: I think it's a huge problem. This is why we tend to have so many issues. But think of it this way: There are literally thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people across the federal government and outside of the federal government with security clearances.
The government over the last five, six, seven years has made strides in identifying behavior that could be suspicious on these government systems. So, for example, if you are working at an intelligence organization and your job is to analyze intelligence on Russia, but the computer system flags you because you're downloading and printing a lot of intelligence on terrorist organizations, that may result in some type of review. But this idea that every classified paper document is being tracked? That's just not how the system works.
Think of it this way: I don't know what your desk is like, but mine's pretty messy. And when I was working in some of my offices, I would have stacks of paper that were unclassified, stacks of paper that were classified, and I literally had a staff person who every day looked to see what was going into my briefcase to make sure that I didn't accidentally miss a classified piece of information and accidentally bring it home.
START HERE: And I was about to say who touches these documents is also a thing, right? Because I imagine President Biden is not the one moving his cardboard boxes around when he leaves his job as VP.
COHEN: No, and that's going to be a huge part of this security review is who actually packed those boxes, you know, were there cover sheets on this information? I've heard some reports that said that these were individual pages. Well, were those pages marked? Did they say top secret or classified? On top of it, Were they portion marked, meaning were there little marks in front of each paragraph that said they were classified?
You know we know that the documents in Mar-a-Lago had those cover sheets, right? Those brightly covered cover sheets with big letters stamped on it that said top secret, sensitive, [or] compartmented intelligence. But, we have not heard yet whether cover sheets were on the material found in the Biden home. So, there's a lot to learn still. Security violations sound very, very nefarious, but in many cases, they're just accidents.
In many cases, they're people who were a little bit careless or maybe didn't, weren't as careful as they should be. And they accidentally mixed up some papers. They got packed in a box and they got stored away. And that will be another thing that will be looked at and is being looked at in the Mar-a-Lago case involving former President Trump as well is when those documents were secured at those locations who had access to it.
START HERE: You just talked about thousands or hundreds of thousands of documents floating around. I mean, Bush, Clinton, Carter, should they be checking their houses right now? How like how much of an issue do you think this is with other former presidents and vice presidents?
COHEN: I suspect that because of the visibility that the Biden case and the Trump case have generated, that you have a large number of former government officials, whether they be former presidents or others who are looking in their basement at boxes that they've stored there since the last government.
START HERE: Do you have boxes full of classified documents we should know about right now, John?
COHEN: Hey, Brad, when I left last time, I didn't want to bring anything with me. The only thing I took was a bottle of wine that one of my staffers gave me. I left everything else there.
