前总统的三位女性唐纳德·特朗普美国白宫现在警告特朗普可能的第二个任期，其中一人表示，这可能意味着“我们所知的美国民主的终结”

前白宫通讯联络主任艾丽莎·法拉·格里芬、前白宫副新闻秘书萨拉·马修斯和前白宫助理卡西迪·哈钦森首次与美国广播公司新闻“本周”的联合主播乔纳森·卡尔坐在一起，讨论他们在特朗普下台后公开反对特朗普的角色1月6日。

“从根本上说，特朗普的第二个任期可能意味着我们所知的美国民主的终结，我不会轻易这样说，”格里芬现在是美国广播公司(ABC)的《观点》(The View)的联合主持人，他对卡尔说，指责这位前总统在试图“窃取民主选举”和继续掌权方面走了“历史性和违宪的道路”。

“我非常关心这个术语实际上会是什么样子，”格里芬继续说道。

“我们不需要猜测特朗普的第二个任期会是什么样子，因为我们已经看到了它的结束，”马修斯告诉卡尔。

“直到今天，他仍然加倍强调他认为选举被盗和欺诈的事实，”马修斯说，声称特朗普的言论已经变得“越来越不稳定”，理由是他威胁要绕过宪法，并建议将司法部武器化，以报复他的政治敌人。

哈钦森曾是特朗普上一任白宫办公厅主任马克·梅多斯的高级助手，也是2020年大选后支持特朗普时间最长的人。他说，有很大一部分人没有认识到他们的错误，没有努力继续改善我们的国家。"

哈钦森说:“这是继续捍卫我们的机构和我们的宪政共和国的一次重要选举。”。“作为一个国家，我们非常脆弱，民主实验也是如此。”

这是格里芬、马修斯和哈钦森第一次聚集在一起分享他们的经历，他们都与众议院特别委员会合作，调查特朗普支持者在2021年1月6日袭击国会大厦的事件。

格里芬于2020年12月4日辞去了她的白宫职位，参加了一次私人闭门采访1月6日委员会，而于2021年1月6日辞职的马修斯和在特朗普总统任期结束时离开白宫的哈钦森，除了闭门作证外，还在电视听证会上公开作证。1月6日委员会闭门证人访谈的大部分记录最终被公布。

哈钦森令人震惊的证词在众议院1月6日的调查中发挥了重要作用，详细描述了特朗普在2020年大选中的心态，以及1月6日起义之前、期间和之后的事件。

特朗普否认与1月6日有关的任何不当行为。

特朗普竞选团队对美国广播公司的采访做出回应，发表声明称这些女性是“忘恩负义的骗子”，她们“利用了特朗普总统给她们的机会”，已经成为“十足的犹大”。

在这张2022年6月28日的档案照片中，卡西迪·哈钦森在调查1月6日美国国会大厦袭击事件的特别委员会上作证。

汤姆·威廉姆斯/CQ-点名公司

他们说，抛开政治选择民主

“如果他是被提名人，我们唯一的重点需要是确保他不会在明年11月再次当选总统，”哈钦森说，她曾经是特朗普的坚定捍卫者，自1月6日在众议院委员会作证以来，她已成为特朗普及其盟友经常攻击的目标。

他们说，即使这意味着选举一名民主党人担任总统，这对长期支持共和党的马修斯来说是一个令人失望和不安的想法。

“我一生中从未投票给民主党人，但我认为在下一次选举中，我会将政策放在一边，选择民主，”马修斯告诉卡尔，她仍然希望特朗普能够在共和党初选中被击败，但时间紧迫。

由于这位前总统将“报复”作为他连任竞选的一个主题，已经面临特朗普及其追随者骚扰的哈钦森、马修斯和格里芬表示，他们担心他再次掌权的后果。

格里芬说:“(特朗普)和他的报复一样让我害怕的是他对最铁杆支持者近乎邪教般的追随。”“当他瞄准你时，你受到的威胁、骚扰和死亡威胁——他是故意瞄准的——真的很可怕，在我们美国的话语中没有一席之地。”

“这些人中有很多人不会站出来，即使私下里他们会承认特朗普不适合，或者私下里承认2020年的选举没有被偷走，”马修斯谈到她的共和党同僚时说。“这是因为他们知道他们将面临死亡威胁，他们的家人将面临死亡威胁。”

哈钦森提到了特朗普最近最具争议的一句话:“他觉得自己需要独自成为独裁者，这一事实表明他是一个软弱无力的人。”

在本月早些时候接受福克斯新闻频道主持人肖恩·哈尼蒂的市政厅式采访时，川普说他不会成为独裁者除了第一天。”特朗普后来为这一评论辩护说，这是一个笑话，并表示他不会成为一个独裁者，但尽管如此，他还是面临着反弹，因为他重复了过去威权领导人的言论。

格里芬指出，前副总统彭斯在任期间“看到的比我们任何人看到的都多”，并呼吁他更加公开地反对特朗普。

格里芬说:“我只是希望在这一时刻，当我们不到一年的时候……他会考虑更有力地说出唐纳德·特朗普的不合适之处。”“这与政治无关。这不是政策的问题。这是关于作为自由世界领袖的人的性格。”

重温1月6日和房子调查

马修斯和哈钦森都曾作为白宫官员经历过1月6日的起义，他们告诉卡尔他们是如何处理他们相互冲突的情绪的。

马修斯说，她在1月6日晚上辞去了工作，因为她无法忍受自己不得不为起义辩护。

马修斯说:“1月6日之后的第二天，我不能走进白宫大门，特别是作为一名发言人，因为我知道我必须捍卫这一点，捍卫我们那天看到的事情和他的失职。”“我无法忍受自己。这就是为什么我做出这个决定，然后在1月6日的委员会面前作证。”

当时仍忠于政府的哈钦森表示，第二天在电视上看到格里芬批评特朗普，她感到不安。

哈钦森说:“我仍然感到对政府的忠诚，我并不骄傲地这样说。”。“当我有这种想法时，我有-这是一种开始-这些分裂的情绪，关于如何实际处理那天发生的事情，如何处理我自己的参与，以及我可以做些什么来前进。”

“一方面，我真的很生艾丽莎的气，因为我们非常非常亲密……另一方面，我真的很自豪，有点羡慕你表现出的勇气，”哈钦森继续说道。

马修斯和哈钦森都赞扬格里芬将他们与共和党代表利兹·切尼和亚当·金辛格联系起来，这两位共和党成员在1月6日的委员会上，最终导致他们在委员会面前公开电视作证。

“一切都是秘密的，”马修斯回忆起她与切尼和格里芬在国会山一个“小地下室办公室”的初次会面。“我们在那里坐了大概四五个小时。我只是给了她我对1月6日之前的事件和选举结果的最好回忆。”

哈钦森说，格里芬联系她与1月6日的委员会会谈时，她仍在Mar-a-Lago的工资单上。

“在我所谓的旅程中，我正处在一个非常微妙的时刻，我真的很想站出来，”哈钦森说。“但我也担心——我不知道是否会有任何持久的影响。”

当被问及女性在1月6日起义后公开反对特朗普的过程中扮演的角色时，格里芬强调了她所说的哈钦森和马修斯——两人都只有20多岁——在挺身而出时表现出的勇气。

格里芬说:“出于某种原因，在需要勇气的时候，女性往往会表现出惊人的勇气，我相信这些比我年轻、没有高级头衔的女性会挺身而出。”

“我认为有很多人看到了一些危险的事情，但他们已经做出计算，他很可能再次成为总统，”她继续说道。“他们不仅不想站在他的对立面，还想保护自己，以便将来有机会和他在一起。”

格里芬说:“对我来说，这基本上可以归结为，我希望能够看着我未来的孩子的眼睛说，当历史需要时，我做了正确的事情，我有勇气去做。”“对我来说，这比任何未来都重要，你知道，如果他再次当选总统，工作或权力结构都可能存在。”

Former Trump White House insiders call possible 2nd term a threat to American democracy

Three women who served in former PresidentDonald Trump's White House are now warning against a possible second Trump term, with one of them saying it could mean "the end of American democracy as we know it."

For the first time, former White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin, former White House deputy press secretary Sarah Matthews, and former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson sat down together with ABC News "This Week" co-anchor Jonathan Karl to discuss their roles in speaking out against Trump in the wake ofJan. 6.

"Fundamentally, a second Trump term could mean the end of American democracy as we know it, and I don't say that lightly," Griffin, now a co-host of ABC's "The View," told Karl, accusing the former president of having gone to "historic and unconstitutional lengths" in attempting to "steal a democratic election" and to stay in power.

"I'm very concerned about what the term would actually look like," Griffin continued.

"We don't need to speculate what a second Trump term would like because we already saw it play out," Matthews told Karl.

"To this day, he still doubles down on the fact that he thinks that the election was stolen and fraudulent," Matthews said, claiming Trump's rhetoric has become "increasingly erratic," citing his threats to skirt the Constitution and suggestions about weaponizing the Justice Department to retaliate against his political enemies.

Hutchinson, who served as a top aide to Trump's last White House chief of staff Mark Meadows – and who stood by Trump the longest after the 2020 election – said there's a large portion of the population that's not recognizing their mistakes, that's not working to continue to better our country."

"This is a fundamental election to continue to safeguard our institutions and our constitutional republic," Hutchinson said. "We're extremely fragile as a country, and so is the democratic experiment."

This was the first time Griffin, Matthews, and Hutchinson, who all cooperated with the House select committee that investigated the Capitol attack by Trump supporters on Jan. 6, 2021, gathered to share their experiences.

Griffin, who had resigned from her White House post on Dec. 4, 2020, sat for a private closed-door interview with theJan. 6 committee,while Matthews, who resigned on Jan. 6, 2021, and Hutchinson, who left the White House at the end of the Trump presidency, testified publicly at televised hearings in addition to closed-door testimony. Most transcripts of the Jan. 6 committee's closed-door witness interviews were eventually published.

The bombshell testimony from Hutchinson played a major role in the House Jan. 6 investigation, providing detailed accounts of Trump's frame of mind surrounding the 2020 election he lost as well as the events before, during, and after the Jan. 6 insurrection.

Trump has denied any wrongdoing with regard to Jan. 6.

The Trump campaign responded to ABC's interview with a statement calling the women "ungrateful grifters" who "used the opportunities given to them by President Trump" and had gone "full Judas."

Putting politics aside to choose democracy, they say

"Our singular focus needs to be, if he is the nominee, on making sure that he is not elected the president again next November," said Hutchinson, once a staunch Trump defender who has become a frequent target of attacks by him and his allies since her testimony before the House Jan. 6 committee.

That is, they said, even if it means electing a Democrat as president, which is a disappointing and upsetting thought for Matthews, who has long backed Republicans.

"I've never voted for a Democrat in my life, but I think that in this next election, I would put policy aside and choose democracy," Matthews told Karl, saying she's still hopeful that Trump can be defeated in the Republican primary but that the clock is ticking.

And because the former president has made "retribution" a major theme of his reelection campaign, Hutchinson, Matthews and Griffin, who have already faced harassment from Trump and his followers, say they fear the consequences of his rising to power again.

"What scares me as much as [Trump] and his retribution is the almost cult-like following he has over his most diehard supporters," Griffin said. "The threats, the harassment, the death threats that you get when he targets you -- and he's deliberate in targeting -- is really horrifying and has no place in our American discourse."

"A lot of these people won't come forward even if privately they'll acknowledge that Trump is unfit or will privately acknowledge that the 2020 election wasn't stolen," Matthews added of her fellow Republicans. "It's because they know that they will face death threats, that their families will face death threats."

Hutchinson made a reference to one of Trump's recent most controversial comments: "The fact that he feels that he needs to lean into being a dictator alone shows that he is a weak and feeble man."

During a town hall-style interview with Fox News host Sean Hannity earlier this month, Trump said he would not be a dictator "except for Day One." Trump has since defended the comment as a joke and said he will not be a dictator but has faced backlash nonetheless as he repeated rhetoric that mirrored the words of past authoritarian leaders.

Griffin noted that former Vice President Pence has "seen more than any of us have seen" while in office, and called on him to come forward more publicly against Trump.

"I would just hope in this moment, when we are less than a year out … that he would think about speaking out more forcefully just about the unfitness of Donald Trump," Griffin said. "This is not about politics. It's not about policy. It is about the character of the man who is the leader of the free world."

Reliving Jan. 6 and the House investigation

Matthews and Hutchinson, who both lived through the Jan. 6 insurrection as White House officials, told Karl how they dealt with their conflicting emotions.

Matthews said she resigned from her post the night of Jan. 6 because she couldn't live with herself knowing she'd have to defend the insurrection.

"I could not walk into the White House gates the next day after Jan. 6, especially as someone who is a spokesperson, because I knew that I would have to defend that and defend what we saw that day and his dereliction of duty," Matthews said. "And I couldn't live with myself. And so that was why I made that decision and then going forward to testify before the January 6 committee."

Hutchinson, who was still loyal to the administration at the time, said she was upset to see Griffin on television the next day being critical of Trump.

"I still felt that sense of loyalty to the administration, and I don't say that with pride," Hutchinson said. "And I had -- that was sort of the beginning when I had this -- these split emotions about how to actually process what happened that day and how to process my own involvement in it and what I could do moving forward."

"I was really upset with Alyssa on one hand, because we were very, very close … And there's also the side of me where I was really proud and somewhat envious of the courage that you displayed," Hutchinson continued.

Matthews and Hutchinson both gave credit to Griffin for connecting them with the GOP Reps. Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger, the two GOP members of the Jan. 6 committee, eventually leading to their public televised testimony before the panel.

"It was all secretive," Matthews recalled of her initial meeting with Cheney and Griffin in a "little basement office" on Capitol Hill. "We sat there for probably like, what, four or five hours or something. And I just gave her my best recollection of the events leading up to January 6 and the aftermath of the election."

Hutchinson said she was still on the Mar-a-Lago payroll when she was contacted by Griffin about talking to the Jan. 6 committee.

"I was at this really delicate point in my so-called journey in all of this where I, I really wanted to come forward," Hutchinson said. "But I also had concerns about -- I didn't know if there'd be any lasting implications."

Asked about women's roles in speaking out against Trump following the Jan. 6 insurrection, Griffin emphasized what she called the courage Hutchinson and Matthews -- who are both still in their 20s -- showed in stepping forward.

"For some reason, in moments that call for it, women tend to show an astonishing amount of courage, and I credit these women who are younger than me, had not as senior of titles, and stepped forward," Griffin said.

"I think that there are a lot of people who saw some dangerous things, but they've made the calculation that he very well may be president again," she continued. "They not only don't want to be on his bad side, they also want to preserve themselves for future opportunities with him."

"For me, it fundamentally came down to, I want to be able to look my future kids in the eye and say, when history called for it, I did the right thing and I had the courage to do it," Griffin said. "That matters to me more than any future, you know, job or power structure that might exist if he's president again."