前辩护律师唐纳德·特朗普罗伯特·雷在接受美国广播公司新闻采访时，就法官胡安·梅尔科姆对前总统藐视法庭的裁决发表了自己的见解。
法官Merchan认为特朗普第10次违反了禁言令。Merchan表示，每次违反1000美元的罚款是无效的，并威胁要在未来监禁特朗普。
雷认为，前总统和他的律师知道他们已经考验了法官的耐心，他认为无论特朗普是谁，法官都会采取行动。
根据雷的说法，如果特朗普面临后果，他的律师可能会上诉，导致审判陷入停顿。
周一，美国广播公司新闻频道(ABC News)采访了雷，讨论了特朗普如果再次违反禁令可能面临的后果。
ABC新闻直播:让我们有请罗伯特·雷。他是特朗普在第一次参议院弹劾审判中的辩护律师。罗伯特，非常感谢你加入我们。
让我们从藐视法庭开始。那实际上是10号。法官真的给出了严厉的警告，说下次会有牢狱之灾。你认为这真的有可能吗?
罗伯特·雷:为了让它成为一种选择，法官必须发出警告，他这样做了。显然，双方都在试探藐视法庭的限度，看是否会实施制裁，即使受到威胁。到目前为止，控方还没有要求，但法官有自由裁量权，假设他提供了足够的警告和通知，他认为前总统的行为违反了禁言令;会有什么后果。
所以我怀疑现在他已经推了，法官在他采取行动之前已经把它推得够远了。我认为前总统和他的律师们显然已经注意到了这个事实。所以，你知道，这是一个我认为应该避免的地方，正如法官自己指出的那样。但他已经表示，尽管他知道自己的对手是谁，但他还是会采取行动。现在，这样做的后果非常重要，因为我的猜测是，如果这种情况发生，将导致审判陷入停顿，前总统可能会通过他的律师上诉，并寻求上诉法院的救济。
同样，这也不是任何人想要的结果。脱离公众是不可取的。这对控方来说是不可取的。当然，法官不希望这样做，阻碍陪审团。但那是，你知道，那可能是我们要去的地方。
美国广播公司新闻直播:你非常了解唐纳德·特朗普，因为你以前代表过他。我很好奇你是否认为，根据你所了解的这个人和他的性格，这种警告，这种潜在的监禁威胁足以阻止他吗?
雷:听着，他首先是美国总统候选人。如果他发现，你知道，在法庭上可能让我陷入麻烦的事情和他的，他认为他对选民的更高要求之间做出选择，他会选择，你知道，他的候选人资格而不是法官可能做或不做什么。
话虽如此，但我发现这里的情况是，我相信这是他的律师给他的建议，这里正在进行仔细的校准。我认为，这位前总统可能会试图避开因藐视法庭而实际入狱的威胁。
ABC新闻直播:请告诉我们，你是否认为控方提供的证据会引起陪审团的共鸣。至于那张手写的便条，显然是艾伦·维斯伯格写的。十二笔不同的付款给当时的川普律师迈克尔·科恩。
雷:我认为，陪审团最终将关注的三个关键问题是，他们必须证明什么，政府必须证明超越合理怀疑，这将是陪审团审议的焦点，当他们最终获得案件时，可能是本月晚些时候，也可能是6月初。那就是，你知道，这些记录是假的吗?对此有一些疑问。你从今天的一些交叉询问中看到了。他们真的是，你知道，业务费用，法律费用，还是其他东西?
第二个问题是，是否有人试图隐瞒，第三个问题是，所有这些都是为了影响选举?这三样东西都必须展示出来。但最重要的是，必须证明唐纳德·特朗普知道。我认为，即使在今天的证词之后，我们仍然会到达一个点，陪审团将不得不关注迈克尔·科恩对唐纳德·特朗普所知的事情的看法，因为今天从这些证人那里可以清楚地看到，他们并不真正知道，以这样或那样的方式，唐纳德·特朗普知道或不知道什么。他们只知道他们被指示做什么。
ABC新闻直播:我想在这里引用一下，因为控方表示，在他们的案件结束时，陪审员将对特朗普的行为有一个全面的了解，并必然会得出唐纳德·特朗普有罪的结论。你认为控方在这方面进展如何?
雷:嗯，那是，那是个大问题，不是吗?我的意思是，这显然是由陪审团来决定他们是否提出了这个案件。这是他们在开场时承诺的。如果你是一名检察官，这就是你希望能够证明的。
辩方试图在这一论点中找出漏洞，最终将由陪审团决定政府是否已经一致履行了职责，在没有合理怀疑的情况下说服所有12名陪审员，事实上，唐纳德·特朗普知道，我认为，嗯，我们还不知道。我们在第12天。
根据控方今天给出的估计，这场审判似乎还剩下大约10天的审判时间。所以我们可能会在劳动节前后离开。抱歉，阵亡将士纪念日。然后我们可能会在6月左右的第一周进行陪审团审议、结案陈词等等。
ABC新闻直播:请原谅这里的双关语，但根据你的估计，陪审团仍然没有做出决定。你知道，现在下决定还为时过早。
雷:我的意思是，我想这是一个双关语，但我的意思是，这就是为什么所有刑事案件都是棘手的问题，它们涉及到真正的意图问题。这没什么不同。
ABC新闻直播:前辩护律师罗伯特·雷，非常感谢您抽出时间。感谢你的加入。
雷:谢谢你邀请我。
Former Donald Trump attorney speaks on consequences the ex-president will face if held in contempt
Former defense attorney forDonald Trump, Robert Ray, spoke with ABC News, providing his insights on Judge Juan Merchan's finding of contempt against the former president.
Judge Merchan held Trump in contempt for violating a gag order for the 10th time. Merchan stated that the $1,000 fines per violation were not effective and threatened to incarcerate Trump in the future.
Ray believes that the former president and his lawyers know they have tested the judge's patience, and he thinks the judge will take action regardless of who Trump is.
According to Ray, if Trump were to face consequences, his lawyers would likely appeal, causing the trial to come to a standstill.
ABC News sat down with Ray on Monday to discuss the possible outcomes that Trump could face if he violates the gag order again.
ABC NEWS LIVE: Let's bring in Robert Ray. He was Trump's defense lawyer in the first Senate impeachment trial. Robert, thanks so much for joining us.
Let's start with that contempt of court. That was actually the 10th. And the judge really gave that stern warning, saying next time there would be jail time. Do you think that that's really potentially an option?
ROBERT RAY: In order for it to be an option, the judge would have to issue that warning, which he did. And obviously, both sides are testing the limits with regard to contempt about whether or not that sanction, even if threatened, would be imposed. The prosecution up to now hasn't asked for it, but the judge has discretion, assuming he provides, you know, sufficient warning and notices to the consequences of what he believes to be conduct by the former president to violate the gag order; what the repercussions will be.
So I suspect now that he's pushed it about the judge has pushed it about as far as he intends to push it before he will act. And I think that the former president and his lawyers obviously are on notice of that fact. So, you know, this is a place that I think, as the judge indicated himself, is a place to be avoided. But he's signaled that he will act even though he understands who he's acting against. Now, the consequences of doing that are pretty important, because my guess is that they, if that were to happen, it would cause the trial to come to a standstill where the former president, through his lawyers, would likely appeal and seek relief from an appellate court.
And again, that's not a desirable outcome for anybody, either. It's not desirable out from the public. It's not desirable for the prosecution. Certainly, judge doesn't want to do that and hold up the jury. But that's, you know, that could be where we're headed here.
ABC NEW LIVE: You know Donald Trump very well as far as representing him before. I'm curious if you think, based on the man you know and his character, is this warning, this threat of a potential jail time enough to deter him?
RAY: Look, he's first and foremost a candidate for president of the United States. And if he finds that, you know, and a choice between what might get me in trouble before this judge in a courtroom and what his, what he believes to be his higher calling with regard to the electorate is, he's going to choose, you know, his candidacy over what the judge may or may not do.
Having said that, though, what I find to be the case here, and I'm sure this is the advice he is being given by his lawyers, is that there's a careful calibration going on here. And I think the former president is likely to try to steer clear of the threat of actual imprisonment for contempt.
ABC NEWS LIVE: And give us a sense of if you think that the evidence provided by the prosecution will really resonate with the jury. As far as that handwritten note, apparently written by Allen Weisselberg. Twelve different payments to then-Trump lawyer Michael Cohen.
RAY: The three, I think, key things that the jury will ultimately focus on are one, what they have to prove, the government will have to demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt, and this is going to be the focus of, I think, the jury's deliberations, when they ultimately get the case, probably sometime later this month or maybe in early June. And that is, you know, are the records false? And there's some question about that. You saw that from, you know, some of the cross-examination today. Are they really, you know, business expenses, legal fees, or are they something else?
The second is, was there were efforts to conceal, and and the third is what was all of this done with the purpose of influencing an election? All three of those things will have to be shown. But most importantly, it has to be shown that Donald Trump knew. And I think we're still going to get to a point, even after today's testimony, where the jury is going to have to focus on what Michael Cohen has to say about what Donald Trump knew, because it was clear from these witnesses today, they don't really know, one way or another, what Donald Trump knew or didn't know. They just know what they were instructed to do.
ABC NEWS LIVE: And just want to kind of quote here, because the prosecution has said by the end of their case, the jurors will have a full picture of Trump's conduct and inescapably reach the conclusion that Donald Trump is guilty. How do you think the prosecution is doing on that?
RAY: Well, that's the, that's the big question, isn't it? I mean, that's obviously for the jury to decide whether or not they have presented that case. That's what they promised in opening. That's what you hope to be able to prove if you're a prosecutor.
The defense is attempting to poke holes in that argument, and it will ultimately be for the jury to decide whether or not the government has met its burden unanimously to convince all 12 jurors beyond a reasonable doubt that, in fact, Donald Trump knew, I think, well, we don't know yet. We're on Day 12.
It sounds like there's about maybe 10 more trial days left in this trial, according to the estimates that the prosecution gave today. So it should take us probably somewhere around Labor Day. I'm sorry, Memorial Day. And then we'll, we'll have probably jury deliberations, closing arguments and so forth in the first week of June or so.
ABC NEWS LIVE: So pardon the pun here, but in your estimation, the jury is still out. It's too early to decide, you know.
RAY: I mean, I guess it is a pun, but I mean, that's why this is such, you know, all criminal cases are tough questions, and they involve, you know, real questions of intent. This is no different.
ABC NEWS LIVE: Former defense attorney Robert Ray, we thank you so much for your time. Appreciate you joining.
RAY: Thank you for having me.
